Sponsor |  emortis9 | Apr 7, 12:59pm | well, you can employ the techniques on matters that can be proved using the scientific method.
Since you would be hard pressed to prove something is child abuse(it being somewhat a matter of opinion), I would not have assumed that Dawkins had based his statement on scientific data.
Maybe he thinks that using fear to indoctrinate your children is abusive. You may agree or disagree, but it is his opinion.
I agree with him. |
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Sponsor | | lesoldham | Apr 7, 3:43pm | | Using fear to indoctrinate children is abusive. It is harsh to characterize Christians as doing that. I remember "Jesus loves the little children, all the little children of the world." Or "Jesus loves me this I know" as the primary children's themes. These don't seem like fear generating themes to me. |
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| | | anitab | Apr 7, 3:48pm | Now I lay me down to sleep,
I pray the Lord my soul to keep.
If I should die before I wake,
I pray the Lord my soul to take.
child's bedtime prayer - 18th century |
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|  olegnep | Apr 7, 3:54pm | | and part of a metallica song |
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Sponsor | | emortis9 | Apr 7, 4:01pm | 22- If you don't believe in Jesus as your Lord and savior you will burn forever in the depths of hell.
That is part of your religion right? |
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| | | anitab | Apr 7, 4:04pm | 24. yes, but more importantly... a way to freak out kids.
seriously.
let's not kid (sorry) around here.. fear is a huge motivating factor.
true christianity (ie the message of jesus) may be about love .. but the church is about getting members. and fear works to get the people through the door.
parents teach this to their kids. they may do it through pretty stories.. but the message is still.. repent or die. |
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Sponsor | | emortis9 | Apr 7, 5:28pm | | sorry...reposted on accident... |
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Sponsor | | lesoldham | Apr 12, 6:50am | 25-emortis, I understand why you would think that since so many
Christian teachers have have emphasized punishment. But that is not the emphasis of the New Testament nor is it in the heart of God to punish.
I finally understood last night that in this forum I have freedom to say something that I would avoid in another setting because very few of my "religious" counterparts read this forum. There is a secret in the Bible that most miss because of pride and religious indoctrination but it is plainly stated and I will state it plainly in my own words.
The way of Christ is not about avoiding punishment but about being rescued. So much so that Paul says that if your hearts desire is to do the right thing and to know truth then the word of God is written on your heart. The Word of God is Christ. This means that if you desire to do right and find truth then you already know Christ whether you name Him or not. In Christian vernacular emortis you are "saved." The Bible further says that God is reconciled to you. This means He is not mad at you nor is He holding any sin against you. He has removed sin and punishment from you "as far as the east is from the west." The true message of Christianity is to ask people to be reconciled to God, to live in the knowledge that they are accepted by God and through that knowledge to have peace in their lives and removal of the fear of death which is the driving force behind sin. |
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Sponsor | | emortis9 | Apr 12, 8:18am | | Well, I'm glad we have a forum where we can speak our mind without being threatened with a swift banning. |
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Sponsor | | rivalarrival | Apr 23, 7:05pm | 28: The way of Christ is not about avoiding punishment but about being rescued
Rescued from what, exactly? When you understand that to be in need of rescue, one must first be in peril, you'll understand the problem I have with the philosophy you described. Even the phrase "Jesus can save you" implies danger. Why else would someone need to be saved? Reasonably rational people listen to warning signs, even if they haven't actually seen a threat. It is dangerous to issue warnings for threats that do not exist. Yelling fire in a crowded theater might provoke a dangerous situation. Or, people may ignore true threats due to all the false wolf sightings.
The nearest parable for religion as it exists today is Chicken Little. Fortunately, it seems we are nearing the end of that story.
This means that if you desire to do right and find truth then you already know Christ whether you name Him or not.
What, then, is the point of naming "Him"?
I finally understood last night that in this forum I have freedom to say something that I would avoid in another setting
Wouldn't it be interesting to know how many of your "religious counterparts" believe as you do? I find it interesting that one would concern themselves more with presenting the appearance of belief than actually believing in the manner of his peers. It's a common phenomenon; there are dozens of references in literature: "The Emperor's New Clothes"; "To thine own self be true".
20: No Dawkins did not say he had any proof but since Dawkins is preaching logic and scientific method it is natural to expect that he employ these techniques.
Dawkins provided several pieces of evidence to support his theory. If one wishes to see this evidence, one need only read the claims he has made.
There are no "proofs" in the scientific method: Evidence is to the Scientific Method as Proof is to Logic.
29: Heh, I just got done reviewing the Holy Trinity thread from about a year ago.
1: Even if we are going with the stated premise that religion is inversely correlated with negative juvenile behavior, they have not demonstrated their premise, that religion is not child abuse.
First, the studies were conducted with surveys rather than neutral data. There are so many problems with this method that I won't even begin to start.
Second, they studied desired behavior, and considered positive behavior to be indicative of their claim. However, an individual can achieve desired behavior from another through abusive behavior. Holding a gun to an innocent person's head is clearly abusive, however this person is very likely to behave as the individual wishes him to.
As a challenge to the data presented: Atheists make up slightly more than 2/10ths of 1% of the US prison population (as of 1997) yet atheists compose between 10% and 25% of the US population. Atheists are clearly, and significantly under represented in prisons, yet this survey would seem to predict the opposite.
Third, The core of Dawkins' argument hovers around the idea that religion is used to open a person's mind to irrational belief over rational thought. Yet none of the data presented has any bearing on an individual's ability to discriminate fact and fiction, or to measure reasoning ability.
Numerous studies have demonstrated an inverse correlation between strength of religious conviction and general intelligence - I leave discovery of these studies as an exercise to the reader. |
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