|  mrstarstuff | May 15, 2:05am | You should not tie reasons to be or not to be an atheist with disproving the bible. It is just the Judeo-Christian manual among those of countless other religions(such as the Koran). Belief in a deity is illogical and must(and can) be debunked with logic. For example:
A theist argument is that the universe could not have existed forever, so a God had to have "started" it. But that is illogical because it doesn't change the problem, you then must believe that the "God" existed forever with no start. The only logical answer is that we don't know how it started(where did the energy that resulted in 'the big bang' come from ?).
Believers substitute God as the answer to countless questions that they can't otherwise answer, which is why many societies have had "Gods" to explain thunder, movement of the sun, creation of life, etc. |
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Sponsor |  rivalarrival | May 15, 6:45pm | 21: In order to claim the "only" logical position, one must make no assumptions in their hypothesis. You assumed that at some point IN TIME, the universe did not exist, and at a later point IN TIME, the universe did exist. But, if we assume that time itself is a component of the universe, there can be no "before the universe existed".
If we assume that time is a component of the universe, and that the definition of "always" is implicitly dependent on time, we can say that the universe has always existed, and the universe will always exist.
time is not linear. Time stretches and contracts based on a number of factors - gravity, velocity... When we say "billions of years ago there was a big bang", we fail to even understand, the relativistic nature of time. |
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| | mrstarstuff | May 15, 10:10pm | | 22: I made no such assumption, I said that we don't know, e.g. we don't know whether it had a start or existed forever. I said that theists argue that a "god" started it. We do know that there was an event we named the 'big bang' and that it was around 13 billion of what we define as our years ago. |
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Sponsor | | rivalarrival | May 16, 2:52pm | 23: You made the assumption, you even stated it, immediately after your underlined words! :-)
I agree - we don't know. We don't even know that there was a big bang 13 billion years ago. We do know that by specifying the answer in terms of "years" that relativity was not adequately considered in the equation.
On an absolute time scale, the time described by january 1st 2007, 0100 to 0200 is not equal to the time described by january 1st, 2008, 0100 to 0200. We experienced the same amount of time in each of those periods, but time itself fluctuates based on countless factors.
Your left hand experiences time slightly differently from your right hand. When you understand that, you'll understand that the 13-billion year figure is nonsensical. |
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Sponsor | | Kibiyama | May 16, 3:39pm | (where did the energy that resulted in 'the big bang' come from ?)
This is the problem with our brains. Because we are makers, we assume that everything -- tangible or intangible -- came from somewhere, despite all logic.
Matter/energy cannot be created or destroyed.
When we say something is created, we always mean that the matter has changed forms, but no new matter is made. The problem is that we extend this to the universe and matter itself, for which there is no precedent.
We have never witnessed matter/energy being created, so there is no reason to think that it can be "created" or that such a word can even apply to it. |
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| | LuridHope | May 16, 3:46pm | | I'm glad that earth isn't the center of universe, that humanity is no more cosmically important than star dust, and God is nothing but a figment of our imagination. What a relief! |
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